Curse

Cowboy Nastyman · May 03, 2006, 01:12 PM // 13:12

hehe who here remembers when henchmen would start floating and get stuck forcing you to restart what u were doing

seekup41 · May 03, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

I hate that they get stuck in certan areas and you dont realize it until your in a fight an die. then you see that your healer is still alive but walking back and forth on an incline because the damn npc doesnt know were the steps are!!!

This happeneds a lot in factions and is very annoying, hope it gets fixed soon

apmonte · May 03, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

I agree with most of what's been said and that henchie AI continues to be a huge problem in prophecies. (I haven't started Factions yet) The other day I was doing one of the ring of fire missions with henchies and doing quite well.. until we ran into some imps that started casting meteor shower. Unlike the now smarter mobs that will leave the AOE area, my henchies stayed right in there and died very quickly. Eventually I get them rezed and move on - running through lava to get to the next land bridge and start the next battle. Unfortunately, my ranger died, but the henchies were successful in dispatching the remaining foes. I'm thinking great! They'll rez me and we'll be on our way.. but no.. the four remaining henchies choose to stand of to the side of the land bridge in lava (degen). Despite her low health- the healer hench wades into the lava to rez one of the other henchies. (I'm thinking - HEY! come heal my ass first - especially since I died on dry land, yards from her position) So of course, she dies and then I'm left to watch the remaining three henchies stand in lava until they die as well.

I don't think it's to much to ask for improved henchie AI. I'm not asking to turn henchies into demi-gods, just for them to display some common sense - the same common sense that many aggies are currently capable of displaying.

felinette · May 03, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

I just want to know why are the foes AI smarter than our hench AI. Hell I've seen a group fo 3 wars, 2 ele, and 1 mes SPIKE a target.

I wonder about that, too.

Quote:

I've also noticed the Canthan henchies seem to run off and attack groups without warning.

Yep. Happens enough times that it's annoying.

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Any time I'm in Cantha with a full hench party (And I say Cantha because it doesnt happen in Tyria) the game acts like I'm carrying a gear. People familiar with that glitch know what I mean. The mobs completely ignore the henches and concentrate entirely on me. Its happened with my monk, my warrior and my Mesmer.

Yep. Posted this problem in the "Disappointments" thread. It's irritating, and makes taking out a full party of henchies difficult. As I said in the other thread, I spend more time kiting than I do playing. The opponents rush through the other seven henchies to me, ALL of the opponents. And if some caster or marksman has all seven henchies pounding on him, he'll still target me, even if I'm standing far away. I hope they fix it. It detracts from the enjoyment of the game.

Quote:

I just wanted to point out that you can target something, and then press Ctrl+Shift+Spacebar. This will call a target without you attacking it, and if you're close enough to the target (though still outside the bubble) the henchmen will take off and take all the aggro while you stand back.
It's not really an "aggressive mode", but I do it all the time on my monk and don't have any problems with being hit

Yes, but this doesn't work as well in Cantha from what I've seen. If you cast a spell, the opponents notice and then they all charge you. A monk never needs to attack or cast spells on an opponent (unless smiting). For those of us who do, this isn't a solution.

As far as all the comments about the healer henchies go, the healers are much worse than Alesia and Lina. My god, they're bad. You'd think the AI would have improved, but something's seriously wrong there.

Lady Erighan · May 03, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

/signed...

MasterThrawn · May 03, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

I agree with everything stated here, and I think the Canthan AI is worse than Prophecies. I mean I henchied THK and Dragons Lair, so I really was impressed with that, but have not had such good luck in Cantha. The healer as stated is horrible, and seems to wait a few minutes before rezzing, and if she does she does so in the middle of large groups of enemies. Annoying that I always seem to lose one or two on the map, and didn't even notice because they got stuck on someone or something.

I find it funny that the enemy on the other hand seems to be very smart - I was going crazy with those Rangers. Constantly laying traps, and casting lightning reflexes. Wish I could recruit them...

Iskrah · May 03, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by baz777

At least Henches don’t run off the map on their own

They do!
They get stuck on NPCs! And after a while they just run towards a wall, back and forth like they could follow you with a straight line!

Hamumu · May 03, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

I have a henchmen dream I would like to share with you all.

There's AI for knowing when to use every single skill in the game, right? Or at least most of them (since some monster or other is equipped with them). It's not very brilliant AI sometimes, but it exists.

So I would love it if I could recruit my other characters as henchies! And I don't mean for it to be fair - I don't want to only be able to do it when I'm higher level than them. If I so choose, I should be able to recruit my own level 20s when I am level 1. Why not? I already did the work of leveling them up to 20, no reason I shouldn't be able to get powerleveled by them just as much as if they were human players.

It would also add a really fun (to me) element to the game - figuring out what builds make really good henchies. Because the AI means that some skills are good with henchies and some aren't, regardless of which ones are good when playing your own guy. Instead of making a single build, you'd be inventing an entire party that works well together.

They could still take their gold and drops and vanish them into thin air, that's okay (although it might be cute if they kept the gold, and you would log in as them and see they suddenly had another platinum or so). They don't have to gain any XP either. I just want the fun of designing my own henchmen, and the ability to take advantage of the fact that I have tons of high level characters.

It's practically all set up already. The only thing needed is a menu/NPC where you can choose them from. And something like a * by their name in the party window, so if you drag them into PVP or groups, people know they're not real players.

And I also like the aforementioned idea of simply grabbing multiples of the same henchman. It'd be nice to be able to freely design your own party in that way. I'd just load up with all interrupters, and enjoy!

lauriepriest · May 03, 2006, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Idea being, join a guild> join an alliance> nevern need henchies again.

DarkZeal · May 03, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskrah

They do!
They get stuck on NPCs! And after a while they just run towards a wall, back and forth like they could follow you with a straight line!

This is from THREE different seperate attempts at the mission.

GG anet.

felinette · May 03, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lauriepriest

Idea being, join a guild> join an alliance> nevern need henchies again.

Not really. One of my accounts belongs to a guild. Some of the members don't have Factions, or they want to PvP or GvG rather than PvE, or they're interested in doing a quest or mission other than the one I want to do. Then there's the issue that I tend to be an early riser on weekends. Not many guild members are online at 7 am Sunday morning when I'm itching to do a quest or mission. Joining a guild doesn't mean "instant party" whenever you want one. All the PUGs I go out with are comprised of members from different guilds, so obviously those guys couldn't round up a guild party either.

One thing I really liked about Prophecies was that the vast majority of missions and quests were doable with henchies. It's disappointing that Factions isn't as henchie-friendly.

ETA:

Quote:

So I would love it if I could recruit my other characters as henchies!

It'll never happen, but I'd love this, too. I often think, "This would be so much easier if [character] were in the party."

Mesti Arcanus · May 03, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Most of the henchie problems I can handle, like aggro issues. It took me a while to learn how to play around it, but I got it eventually. But the one thing that I can't play around with henchies is the healing/ressing.

I wiped about a half dozen times before getting gold on the Luxon storyline mission, because I would be killed a the very end, and the henchies would stop attacking the only target on the screen, which was well within their aggro bubble. He'd res an enemy, they'd kill it, and then they'd just stand there. Wash, rinse, repeat. Even when he used his attack on them, they still wouldn't kill him, even though it wouldn't have been that hard (he was down to ~10-50% HP when I died every time). But no, they'd just stand there. AND NOT EVEN RES ME. Seriously, I've got seven henchies, and two of them (healer & rit) have hard resses. And yet, NONE of them tried to res me once over the minutes long period I'd be laying there dead. I /bug-ed it, and hopefully everybody who has this happen does the same.

That, IMO, is the worst flaw in the hench AI atm. If anything needs to be fixed, it's the healing/ressing scripts. I can work around the rest. Please ANet, address this issue.

Ghozer · May 03, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

The henchies DO have some problems, But theres also things on this post that are irrelivent, such as someone screaming for a protection henchie.... Further in the game, there is a protection henchie (Just like with prophecies)..

yes the henchies are annoying, You move forward to a group to try and agro/pull back out of the way (so not to agro 2 other groups) and the henchies just run in, Even when you havent targeted an enemy.

the healer stands at the front line attempting to tank and heal at the same time... this is not good... Its heals are slow, and low, Change its skills please!

The earth henchie doesnt do its wards often enough, even though it has a full length ward.

the spirit henchie places spirits when your sat healing up, not attacking, and does nothing when you are actually in a battle, so by the time you get to fighting, thier spirits are dead and pointless..

Henchies get stuck on NPC's or Buildings/objects if you target something, 'round a corner' and you want the henchies to go in, but 2 other npc's run forward first (as-soon as they agro) the henchies will just stand there, body blocked, not attempting to go round them/round the corner.

the henchies ressurect in the most retarded manor, and dont attempt to compensate for mob movement...

FIX THE HENCHIES...

/signed

tommarrow · May 03, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

It seems to me that playing by myself with henchies I can get used to some of the issues. The one that gets me is when you have say 2 players and the rest hench. The damn hench don't know who to stay with and will run back and forth between you instead of fighting which makes it difficult to split your forces for the missions that require you to.
The main gripe with me in Factions is the one people have said about the all baddies passing everyone and run to me first even if they get beat on by all of the henchies along the way. It got to the point that I would attack the closest bad guy, run away a bit attack again, run away some more until the baddie would attack the hench then I could fight normally again.

outferno · May 03, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamumu

I have a henchmen dream I would like to share with you all.

There's AI for knowing when to use every single skill in the game, right? Or at least most of them (since some monster or other is equipped with them). It's not very brilliant AI sometimes, but it exists.

So I would love it if I could recruit my other characters as henchies! And I don't mean for it to be fair - I don't want to only be able to do it when I'm higher level than them. If I so choose, I should be able to recruit my own level 20s when I am level 1. Why not? I already did the work of leveling them up to 20, no reason I shouldn't be able to get powerleveled by them just as much as if they were human players.

It would also add a really fun (to me) element to the game - figuring out what builds make really good henchies. Because the AI means that some skills are good with henchies and some aren't, regardless of which ones are good when playing your own guy. Instead of making a single build, you'd be inventing an entire party that works well together.

They could still take their gold and drops and vanish them into thin air, that's okay (although it might be cute if they kept the gold, and you would log in as them and see they suddenly had another platinum or so). They don't have to gain any XP either. I just want the fun of designing my own henchmen, and the ability to take advantage of the fact that I have tons of high level characters.

It's practically all set up already. The only thing needed is a menu/NPC where you can choose them from. And something like a * by their name in the party window, so if you drag them into PVP or groups, people know they're not real players.

And I also like the aforementioned idea of simply grabbing multiples of the same henchman. It'd be nice to be able to freely design your own party in that way. I'd just load up with all interrupters, and enjoy!

I wish it would happen like that, but I seriously doubt it. All though, I think it would be great! Oh man, it'd be so nice to use my own lev 20 warrior, ranger, mesmer, assassin on missions while I was trying to level up a new character.

But, I still think they should let the player toggle henchman aggressiveness/passiveness and also let you toggle the resurrect/heal. The resurrect/heal is SOOO terrible in Factions, that I dread it every time I try to do a quest or a mission with henchman. In fact, when I was playing my assassin trying to get to Vizunah Square, I died a total of 50 times and had 60% DP just trying to get to Vizunah Square IN THE SAME SECTION because of these damn henchman trying to do their own thing!

I've henched my way through a lot in Prophecies, and at least Alesia did some healing, but Sister Tai REALLY SUCKS. My example: Wow, I'm taking damage. Sister Tai is doing nothing. Oh, I'm almost dead. Oh, the heal should come on soon. Casting heal.... damage about to happen, sliver of life, dead. Heal from Sister Tai = cancelled. Then my henchman have a mob of about 5 aggro with me dead in the center... Oh, look, Sister Tai is about to resurrect. Oh snaps, I'm going to get resurrected. *thwack* I'm dead again, hurray. I probably should have started over and went back to town, but the thought of having to encounter another 60% DP.

I honestly don't think it has anything to do with "Learning how to use" henchies as some of you have suggested. I feel that, as a veteran player, I _DO_ know how to use the henchies. However, the henchies in Factions are seriously dumb as bricks. The Henchies in Prophecies are actually a little brighter!

Here's another example why I want a toggle ability for aggressive/passive. Ever try to charm a pet as a ranger with HENCHMAN? Yes, it's possible, BUT EXTREMELY HARD when your henchman start fighting the animal you're trying to charm. Wow. So I hope ANet is listening and impliments a toggle for aggro/pass. It would certainly make the henchman bettter.

My last qualm with the henchman is targetting and fighting. Being an assassin really sucks when you've got henchman or even being a short range fighter. Say you're targetting an enemy and you expect the tanks to run forward and rush when you hit ctrl+spacebar. They start to go, but as soon as you back off in the slightest to let the tank henchman take aggro first, so your poor armor won't get you killed, ALL the henchies will back off. It's so annoying to try to fight mobs as a damage dealer and not a tank with henchman. You can't rush in head first and come out on top - it's utterly frustrating.

Please ANet, put in a toggle for passive/aggressive/attack/stay command. Please!

Cartoonhero · May 03, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

The cutthroat henchie is the worst, or the deadly henchie. Jamei is trying to rez the spirit hench for the thousandth time because he was trying to tank while summoning spirits, and one of the aformentioned hench runs into the next mob. Or I pull one mob, and they run ahead to the next mob and pull them for me too. I do agree that the only hench with brains is the earth hench. Hes actually a decent ele, waay better than cynn.

CycloneDudeP · May 03, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Ugh, I've noticed all these same things with the Canthan henchies. They are seriously idoitic. Not only that, but my guild mates haven't gotten very far in Factions, so I have to use these stupid henchies and deal with the enemies' targeting glitch. Please fix this.

felinette · May 03, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommarrow

It got to the point that I would attack the closest bad guy, run away a bit attack again, run away some more until the baddie would attack the hench then I could fight normally again.

LOL, this is exactly how I do it, except sometimes when I run away, the henchmen follow. *sob* It seems that if you break off attack for a fraction of a second, so do they.

Quote:

I honestly don't think it has anything to do with "Learning how to use" henchies as some of you have suggested. I feel that, as a veteran player, I _DO_ know how to use the henchies. However, the henchies in Factions are seriously dumb as bricks. The Henchies in Prophecies are actually a little brighter!

Yeah. I henched a LOT in Prophecies, including mission and bonus for places like Aurora Glade, Elona Reach, Thirsty River, etc. I know how to use the henchies. These new henchies are just dumber than doorknobs, is all.